发信人: TheBigSlick (Ivan), 信区: JobHunting
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 00:51:57 2012, 美东)
Sorry to say that you made a big mistake. You seem lacking experiences. A
new graduate?
First, why you told hiring manager you had offers (especially from a
competitor) during interview in the fist place? Of course, they can reject
you based on that alone.
Why? From hiring manager point of view, hiring you most likely will be a
waste of
time. They will think if they give you the offer, you will just use it as
leverage and ask companies entering a bidding war, which they most
definitely don't want to see.
Furthermore, if I were the hiring manager, I want to hire somebody who want
the job, not somebody who consider coming to working for me a "tough
decision" . You don't firmly want to come there, from their point of view.
Just treat interview as a dating process, imagine when you date some
girl, if she tell you "oh, tell the truth, I am already dating another guy (
Implying I just come here to see if you are more handsome than him). ... You
want me to be your girlfriend? ugh, it will be a tough decision, I need
really think about it and can't give you answer right now." What do you
think of her now? Most likely you will be totally turned off.
Looks like you didn't even get formal offers from competitor yet, why you
just jump the gun and told your interviewer about the offer is beyond my
understanding. But next time, remember: only after you got the offer from
the interviewer, then you can consider tell them you recently got offers
from another company when you were waiting for their response and you may
ask them if they can counter-offer, if you really want to do so.
And always remember to tell the interviewer you really like the company and
you WANT this position and you WANT to work for them. Don't ever tell them
it is a tough decision, nothing ruins an interview worse than that line.
发信人: TheBigSlick (Ivan), 信区: JobHunting
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 10:47:49 2012, 美东)
When candidates come down to just a few, normally they are all qualified for
the job, it is a coin flip situation, who wins the offer usually comes down
to a few small things including candidates' attitude towards the company.
All things being equals, if one guy tells the company how great he feel the
opportunity is, how very interested he is in this position and working for
the company, while the other guy tells them he get a lot of offers already
and even they give the offers to him, he will have a tough time to decide.
Whom will you give the offer to, if you are the decision maker?
IMHO, only AFTER you get their offer, then you can tell them about your
other offers, if you decide to let the company to match or beat your
existing offers. This is professional. The other way around is foolish.
Guys have to understand that the interview process is so long and tedious,
even for employers. The process sometimes exceeds 2-3 monthes just to fill a
position. Hiring managers have to manage phone screen appointment, on-site
inteviews and coordinate with headhunter, candidates and company's own
managers and tech persons. They definitely don't want to give an offer to a
guy who don't have strong desire (at least from face value) to work for them
.
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 13:49:54 2012, 美东)
very well said. I feel exactly the same way.
It's not wise to let the potential employer know they will be bidding
against other companies, unless you are a super star to them.
You can always have them counter offer after they extend you the offer. Just
simply let company A know you received another offer from xxx company, even
though you are excited about the opportunity, you need to make it
financially favorable to you. I think everyone will understand and think
this is a professional behavior.
The other thing is that it takes a lot of effort for the hiring team to get
an offer approved and extended. The information you disclosed at your
interview will force them to second guess your willingness for the offer.
They may risk wasting all the time and effort to extend the offer to you and
may leave negative impressions with executive team, politically.
Once again, unless you are a super star in your industry, always try to
impress the interviewer like they are your dream company. Negotiate
carefully AFTER you receive the offer.
Anyway, it's not the end of the world and good luck with your other offers.
发信人: lewende (lewende), 信区: JobHunting
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 15:34:08 2012, 美东)
楼主，其实可能没有楼上说的那么复杂。你的immigration status是最大的硬伤。所谓
O签证没多少人办过，而且比H麻烦不少。退一万步来说，现在大公司对于H都不怎么肯
办了。
换了我是HR，如果不是对你很来电，或者HM强烈要求，绝对不会自找麻烦为你张罗办O
签证。现在找工作的人很多，真的，合格的candidate一抓一大把，没必要一定要招外
国人。
换了我是HM，如果不是对你很来电，或者和HR关系很好，一般也不会stand up my neck
来给你发offer。还是太麻烦了。
Move on吧。至于面试过程中提不提竞争对手给了offer，我觉得见仁见智，要看你自身
的实力，背景以及面试人的性格，不能一概而论。
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 00:51:57 2012, 美东)
Sorry to say that you made a big mistake. You seem lacking experiences. A
new graduate?
First, why you told hiring manager you had offers (especially from a
competitor) during interview in the fist place? Of course, they can reject
you based on that alone.
Why? From hiring manager point of view, hiring you most likely will be a
waste of
time. They will think if they give you the offer, you will just use it as
leverage and ask companies entering a bidding war, which they most
definitely don't want to see.
Furthermore, if I were the hiring manager, I want to hire somebody who want
the job, not somebody who consider coming to working for me a "tough
decision" . You don't firmly want to come there, from their point of view.
Just treat interview as a dating process, imagine when you date some
girl, if she tell you "oh, tell the truth, I am already dating another guy (
Implying I just come here to see if you are more handsome than him). ... You
want me to be your girlfriend? ugh, it will be a tough decision, I need
really think about it and can't give you answer right now." What do you
think of her now? Most likely you will be totally turned off.
Looks like you didn't even get formal offers from competitor yet, why you
just jump the gun and told your interviewer about the offer is beyond my
understanding. But next time, remember: only after you got the offer from
the interviewer, then you can consider tell them you recently got offers
from another company when you were waiting for their response and you may
ask them if they can counter-offer, if you really want to do so.
And always remember to tell the interviewer you really like the company and
you WANT this position and you WANT to work for them. Don't ever tell them
it is a tough decision, nothing ruins an interview worse than that line.
发信人: TheBigSlick (Ivan), 信区: JobHunting
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 10:47:49 2012, 美东)
When candidates come down to just a few, normally they are all qualified for
the job, it is a coin flip situation, who wins the offer usually comes down
to a few small things including candidates' attitude towards the company.
All things being equals, if one guy tells the company how great he feel the
opportunity is, how very interested he is in this position and working for
the company, while the other guy tells them he get a lot of offers already
and even they give the offers to him, he will have a tough time to decide.
Whom will you give the offer to, if you are the decision maker?
IMHO, only AFTER you get their offer, then you can tell them about your
other offers, if you decide to let the company to match or beat your
existing offers. This is professional. The other way around is foolish.
Guys have to understand that the interview process is so long and tedious,
even for employers. The process sometimes exceeds 2-3 monthes just to fill a
position. Hiring managers have to manage phone screen appointment, on-site
inteviews and coordinate with headhunter, candidates and company's own
managers and tech persons. They definitely don't want to give an offer to a
guy who don't have strong desire (at least from face value) to work for them
.
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 13:49:54 2012, 美东)
very well said. I feel exactly the same way.
It's not wise to let the potential employer know they will be bidding
against other companies, unless you are a super star to them.
You can always have them counter offer after they extend you the offer. Just
simply let company A know you received another offer from xxx company, even
though you are excited about the opportunity, you need to make it
financially favorable to you. I think everyone will understand and think
this is a professional behavior.
The other thing is that it takes a lot of effort for the hiring team to get
an offer approved and extended. The information you disclosed at your
interview will force them to second guess your willingness for the offer.
They may risk wasting all the time and effort to extend the offer to you and
may leave negative impressions with executive team, politically.
Once again, unless you are a super star in your industry, always try to
impress the interviewer like they are your dream company. Negotiate
carefully AFTER you receive the offer.
Anyway, it's not the end of the world and good luck with your other offers.
发信人: lewende (lewende), 信区: JobHunting
标 题: Re: onsite感觉很好，还是被拒
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Sep 26 15:34:08 2012, 美东)
楼主，其实可能没有楼上说的那么复杂。你的immigration status是最大的硬伤。所谓
O签证没多少人办过，而且比H麻烦不少。退一万步来说，现在大公司对于H都不怎么肯
办了。
换了我是HR，如果不是对你很来电，或者HM强烈要求，绝对不会自找麻烦为你张罗办O
签证。现在找工作的人很多，真的，合格的candidate一抓一大把，没必要一定要招外
国人。
换了我是HM，如果不是对你很来电，或者和HR关系很好，一般也不会stand up my neck
来给你发offer。还是太麻烦了。
Move on吧。至于面试过程中提不提竞争对手给了offer，我觉得见仁见智，要看你自身
的实力，背景以及面试人的性格，不能一概而论。
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