Anthony Beckhouse • I have been a post-doc now for almost 7 years in the one lab. This has been the best job ever but unfortunately for my boss, I am becoming too expensive to keep although she still manages to do so. I am thinking of getting out of academia now because I would have to take a pay cut to go into industry whilst re-training. In academia it is always stressful with funding cuts, grant success rate reductions and 1 or 2 year contracts if you are lucky.
To be successful in academia and get your own lab, you need to be in the top 1% of all the scientists out there. Unfortunately I am in the 99% group that try hard, publish some things but will never fly with the elite.. I am like Angela above.. could always work in someone elses lab if they could afford my experienced salary.
I really enjoy supplying technical support to the students in the lab, experimental design, equipment management and general lab management. So I will be looking at the Industry side of things where I can do these kinds of roles, but these positions don't come up too often in Australia. When you have a family it is more difficult to be flexible and travel to where the work is available too.
Science and academia seems to be for the single people or people without kids who can devote 100% of their time to their work. That can't work for all of us.
Li Bao • I am planning to leave the academia, but not science. My reason is that I am losing interests in academia and started having disbelif in what I am doing. By and by, the rat race in academia feels more like me chasing my tail without any prospectives. However, I am still excited when I hear a good concept and idea. I hope that I could get a second chance in something else.
Yevgeniy Grigoryev, PhD • Great discussion. My reasons are very similar to what Li said: While I still love science, I lost my passion for research. After 10 years at the bench I no longer see meaning nor motivation in pursuing bench science, repeating the same experiments just in different variations that are unlikely to yield any "meaningful" results. Like many said, I am also exhausted by the lack of job stability and horrendous work-life balance, or should I say disbalance. I entered science research, perhaps naively, because I wanted the freedom of thought and the chance to contribute to moving the field forward. The only way I feel I am able to do it now is by leaving Academia.
Ian Clift • I agree with with Sifei on the difference between basic science and development. I have always been more interested in technology development than in basic science. I feel that science should be used to help humanity and that is what technology does, where as basic science research could benefit humanity but usually gets stuck in obscure journals read by only a very few. Often my associates doctoral theses are just inching the information forward, maybe by describing a phenomena in a difference system from the last guy. There is a need for both, but they need to be more closely associated than the current system allows.
Money is also important. I do have a family, but I also left a bachelors level job to pursue a PhD and find myself in a position of looking at Post Docs that still pay less than my bachelors level job. Furthermore, I feel that the larger resource pools that industry provides means more productivity, which is key to advances in society. It is also key that we develop technologies that allow for basic science to be conducted more efficiently.
Thanks for starting this discussion!
Jennifer Stevens, PhD • Great discussion! I decided to leave for several reasons:
1. Bad PI experiences- There are so many dysfunctional labs out there. I was in two of them, and really didn't want to hitch my wagon to another long drawn out post-doc experience just hoping my PI would want to actually send the papers out. The situation was beyond ridiculous in my last lab. Unreasonable expectations in terms of what we could do with our funding, and I had to go on strike after 3 months of waiting for my PI to simply give me constructive feedback on my manuscript. By constructive I mean...point out a hole I didn't see or suggest an experiment we can afford to do that pushes the research forward and isn't just another way to see if proliferation is altered or something. We finally published, without the super expensive experiments, but it was painful. If this were simply my personal experience that would be one thing, but when all of your friends are going through the same things with their PI's you get the sense that it's a widespread problem. We called it the PI publishophobia disease.
2. I didn't want my PI's life. I didn't want the life of my friends PI's either. None of them seemed particularly happy or satisfied with their jobs. Maybe a couple of them did, but they were the exception. As others have said, I want a better work/life balance. Why run round in circles for years trying to get those necessary to advance publications if it's to obtain a position you don't really want, that is very hard to get in the first place.
3. Academic research isn't what I got into medicine to do. I got into it to help people. To find new treatments for disease. Industry is closer to the "front-line" in that respect as what they do is driven by consumer/patient need...not just some cool stuff you wrote about saving lives so you could get grant funding.
4. I need to earn a living. I don't have that spouse or supportive family to pick up the monetary slack that the Post-doc salary leaves. You can make just as much money as a Secretary...and the options for advancement are far greater than for your average Post-doc position.
I love science, but as a career Academic Research is just not for me. I leave it to the super motivated, supported, highly successful 1% to compete for those positions, and am currently pursuing leads both in industry...and outside of science altogether.
Ian Clift • Less than half of PhD's actually stay in academia now. The question is... as people begin to abandon what looks like a sinking ship (as government funding gets cut), will industry be able to handle everyone? Even in 2005 the funding level for research in my area of neuroscience was predominantly funded by industry support. (i.e. half from Pharm, with another good 40% funded by NIH)
So to restate the question; why do we want to leave academia? Because the money isn't there to fund all of us and we still want to use our degrees.
Mickael Jacquet, Ph.D • Hi all,
Very interesting discussion about leaving academia (sorry for my english..)
My case : I spent 5 year in academia (as Research associate and Phd student). I think i could find a Post doc position in academia but i don't want choose this way. As many people, find a well payed job is one of the reasons but not the first. Find new challenges, i mean that you can't find in academia, do or be part of research on applied thematics/technologies.... are the others reasons for why i'm currently unemployed waiting for opportunities in private sector. The major one : i don't know how is the work in a private company and i want see if it can fit with my own personality.
Mickael
Liviu Singher • I'll put in a few words:
1. Paycheck
2. At academy you never stop working (thinking even @home
3. Continuous need to raise funds
4. Pressure to publish fast
5. No positive feedback for teaching
Nate Waldron • There are a number of answers to this question for me. Several have already been mentioned, such as unreliable funding, the pressure to find/maintain funding, pressure to publish, and working in the evenings and weekends is expected often times. Some other reasons are the constant need and pressure to continually validate yourself and your work and to prove its worth and you own knowledge and skills. Secondly, the overly egotistical environment irritates me. The lack of translational and often times relevant and practical research is also frustrating. Everyone says their work is translational, when in reality most has very limited (if any) practical value. Working on the same project(s) for years with little recognition and many times no set end point is draining. Finally, the realm of influence you have is extremely limited to the few people interested in your research. These are some of my reasons I am leaving.
To be successful in academia and get your own lab, you need to be in the top 1% of all the scientists out there. Unfortunately I am in the 99% group that try hard, publish some things but will never fly with the elite.. I am like Angela above.. could always work in someone elses lab if they could afford my experienced salary.
I really enjoy supplying technical support to the students in the lab, experimental design, equipment management and general lab management. So I will be looking at the Industry side of things where I can do these kinds of roles, but these positions don't come up too often in Australia. When you have a family it is more difficult to be flexible and travel to where the work is available too.
Science and academia seems to be for the single people or people without kids who can devote 100% of their time to their work. That can't work for all of us.
Li Bao • I am planning to leave the academia, but not science. My reason is that I am losing interests in academia and started having disbelif in what I am doing. By and by, the rat race in academia feels more like me chasing my tail without any prospectives. However, I am still excited when I hear a good concept and idea. I hope that I could get a second chance in something else.
Yevgeniy Grigoryev, PhD • Great discussion. My reasons are very similar to what Li said: While I still love science, I lost my passion for research. After 10 years at the bench I no longer see meaning nor motivation in pursuing bench science, repeating the same experiments just in different variations that are unlikely to yield any "meaningful" results. Like many said, I am also exhausted by the lack of job stability and horrendous work-life balance, or should I say disbalance. I entered science research, perhaps naively, because I wanted the freedom of thought and the chance to contribute to moving the field forward. The only way I feel I am able to do it now is by leaving Academia.
Ian Clift • I agree with with Sifei on the difference between basic science and development. I have always been more interested in technology development than in basic science. I feel that science should be used to help humanity and that is what technology does, where as basic science research could benefit humanity but usually gets stuck in obscure journals read by only a very few. Often my associates doctoral theses are just inching the information forward, maybe by describing a phenomena in a difference system from the last guy. There is a need for both, but they need to be more closely associated than the current system allows.
Money is also important. I do have a family, but I also left a bachelors level job to pursue a PhD and find myself in a position of looking at Post Docs that still pay less than my bachelors level job. Furthermore, I feel that the larger resource pools that industry provides means more productivity, which is key to advances in society. It is also key that we develop technologies that allow for basic science to be conducted more efficiently.
Thanks for starting this discussion!
Jennifer Stevens, PhD • Great discussion! I decided to leave for several reasons:
1. Bad PI experiences- There are so many dysfunctional labs out there. I was in two of them, and really didn't want to hitch my wagon to another long drawn out post-doc experience just hoping my PI would want to actually send the papers out. The situation was beyond ridiculous in my last lab. Unreasonable expectations in terms of what we could do with our funding, and I had to go on strike after 3 months of waiting for my PI to simply give me constructive feedback on my manuscript. By constructive I mean...point out a hole I didn't see or suggest an experiment we can afford to do that pushes the research forward and isn't just another way to see if proliferation is altered or something. We finally published, without the super expensive experiments, but it was painful. If this were simply my personal experience that would be one thing, but when all of your friends are going through the same things with their PI's you get the sense that it's a widespread problem. We called it the PI publishophobia disease.
2. I didn't want my PI's life. I didn't want the life of my friends PI's either. None of them seemed particularly happy or satisfied with their jobs. Maybe a couple of them did, but they were the exception. As others have said, I want a better work/life balance. Why run round in circles for years trying to get those necessary to advance publications if it's to obtain a position you don't really want, that is very hard to get in the first place.
3. Academic research isn't what I got into medicine to do. I got into it to help people. To find new treatments for disease. Industry is closer to the "front-line" in that respect as what they do is driven by consumer/patient need...not just some cool stuff you wrote about saving lives so you could get grant funding.
4. I need to earn a living. I don't have that spouse or supportive family to pick up the monetary slack that the Post-doc salary leaves. You can make just as much money as a Secretary...and the options for advancement are far greater than for your average Post-doc position.
I love science, but as a career Academic Research is just not for me. I leave it to the super motivated, supported, highly successful 1% to compete for those positions, and am currently pursuing leads both in industry...and outside of science altogether.
Ian Clift • Less than half of PhD's actually stay in academia now. The question is... as people begin to abandon what looks like a sinking ship (as government funding gets cut), will industry be able to handle everyone? Even in 2005 the funding level for research in my area of neuroscience was predominantly funded by industry support. (i.e. half from Pharm, with another good 40% funded by NIH)
So to restate the question; why do we want to leave academia? Because the money isn't there to fund all of us and we still want to use our degrees.
Mickael Jacquet, Ph.D • Hi all,
Very interesting discussion about leaving academia (sorry for my english..)
My case : I spent 5 year in academia (as Research associate and Phd student). I think i could find a Post doc position in academia but i don't want choose this way. As many people, find a well payed job is one of the reasons but not the first. Find new challenges, i mean that you can't find in academia, do or be part of research on applied thematics/technologies.... are the others reasons for why i'm currently unemployed waiting for opportunities in private sector. The major one : i don't know how is the work in a private company and i want see if it can fit with my own personality.
Mickael
Liviu Singher • I'll put in a few words:
1. Paycheck
2. At academy you never stop working (thinking even @home
3. Continuous need to raise funds
4. Pressure to publish fast
5. No positive feedback for teaching
Nate Waldron • There are a number of answers to this question for me. Several have already been mentioned, such as unreliable funding, the pressure to find/maintain funding, pressure to publish, and working in the evenings and weekends is expected often times. Some other reasons are the constant need and pressure to continually validate yourself and your work and to prove its worth and you own knowledge and skills. Secondly, the overly egotistical environment irritates me. The lack of translational and often times relevant and practical research is also frustrating. Everyone says their work is translational, when in reality most has very limited (if any) practical value. Working on the same project(s) for years with little recognition and many times no set end point is draining. Finally, the realm of influence you have is extremely limited to the few people interested in your research. These are some of my reasons I am leaving.
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